10-10-05 11:43pm

retract my away message of 'happy columbus day.' that is so sick - i had no idea. i should really read more...

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Re:, 10-11-05 3:40pm

this is what happened after i posted this entry:

guajira goddess: lol maybe you should've put a little asterisk at the bottom
guajira goddess: ** amy, this was not to hurt your feelings
SPNirvana67: huh?
guajira goddess: her away message right now is HAPPY COLUMBUS DAY
SPNirvana67: lol oops

so, needless to say, i had no idea that was your away message and it was not an attack on you or anyone else who was celebrating the day. i'm just pissed at our history, government, and politics. everything is institutionalized so the average person does think that columbus day is something to celebrate. we might as well start having hitler day.

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Re: Re:, 10-11-05 4:30pm

haha, i know you weren't trying to attack me. i have no personal attachments to columbus day, just lack of anything else to say. and actually, there was an article in the State News today about students protesting the celebration of columbus day. i didn't realize this whole debate was going on. but i'm glad you do, and you wrote that entry. thanks!

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10-11-05 11:45am

I have a book for you *sing song tune*

It's great jmas Columbus bashing stuff, yeehaw.

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Re:, 10-11-05 3:42pm

do jmas kids ever bash JM? you know, for being a privileged, wealthy landowner who wanted a constitution and government that would keep his interests at the forefront?

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Re: Re:, 10-11-05 5:03pm

Well, aren't you just a bundle of sunshine lately? Look, there are plenty of things wrong with James Madison and the rest of historical figures for that matter. But we use his name in the spirit of what he did right. And the things he did wrong, well, give him a break...it was how society was at that time. It doesn't make it right, but at least he was scared of the same "sheep" that you're scared of today. And wake the fuck up Renz, you live in the city that's the closest thing we still have to apartheid. You parents will eventually leave St. Clair Shores so they don't have to live with black people. And you're not going to do anything to stop them.

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Re: Re: Re:, 10-11-05 7:58pm

your personal attachment to mr. madison is a big one, i understand.... but i wasn't attacking you when i said that. i was attacking rich white men. i think i have a valid point. i agree that the guy had some amazing theories for democracy, and he was ahead of his time. however, there is no excuse for the things he did do wrongly. they happened to produce some pretty big problems! this whole myth about the government being for the people and by the people - what the fuck is that? for what people? the native americans? the poor or working-class? the women? the blacks? the gays? the latinos? the japanese? the italians? the irish? the chinese? the muslims? the buddhists? who exactly is this government for? who does it privilege? who does it aid? in whose interest is it that we invade other countries? in whose interest is it that we cut taxes for the wealthy and scrap social programs for the poor? in whose interest is it that corporate industrial companies spew harmful pollutants into the environment? in whose interest is it when pharmaceutical companies release drugs to the public that haven't been adequately tested for side effects and end up killing thousands of people? in whose interest is it when car companies sell automobiles with faulty or defective parts that result in the deaths of innocent people?

the argument that "that's how society was back then" has been used forever and i think it's bullshit. look at today's american society: we all know "race" is a cultural construct, that it does not exist biologically -- the only "race" is the HUMAN race -- but we still have racism. can we chalk it up to society "just being" a certain way? why exactly is our society "that way"? might it have anything to do with the elite in power who have all the access to all the resources in the country and can therefore control education, media, medical care, and every other institution and agent of socialization that upholds & reinforces a society's norms and values? perhaps we're a certain way for a certain reason -- because a certain group of people in power have the ability to control the less powerful group's access to resources and exposure to information, thus rendering them powerless and forcing them to accept the only information that is made available to them -- lies that the elite produce to protect themselves. it's all about social control and keeping the wealth & resources within the elite group's grasp, and finding ways to minimize any kind of uproar from the poor, working, and even middle-class people. the shit that went down when the constitution was written is still going on today, by the same group of people. that says something to me.

accepting the constitution as is, accepting the distribution of power in this country as is, merely because "that's the way it's been for the past couple hundred years and there is no better way" is ridiculous, and i know that you know that. i can't sit here and make excuses for our "founding fathers" and remark how great they were when they were all rich slaveholders. the founders' understanding of equality is rather misconstrued, if you ask me. not every single person in america during that time believed in slavery, just like not every single person in america today is racist, so there is no excuse for the most privileged men at the time (with the most education and exposure to different ideas) to have been bigots. i can relate this to our current president. he claims to believe in the constitution and the rights of all people to be free, have liberty, and pursue their own happiness... but how can that be true when there are contradictions between what he says and what he does? he is against allowing gay couples to be married for no other reason than that they are gay -- different, a minority. how can i believe him when he says he does things in the interest of the american people and yet acts in ways that contradict those very interests? my point is that i see a very common (and disturbing) pattern between the men in power then and now.

and while i'm waking the fuck up, i ask you to leave my parents out if it, because i don't control their thoughts or actions, and i don't see how what they do is relevant to me or my political ideas. also, my parents are not looking to leave st. clair shores because they don't want to live with black people! they want to find a bigger house, and they're unsure of how value and prices of homes in the area are going to fluctuate if people get scared because black people are moving in. my parents might be conservative at times, but geez.... don't make such a loaded statement like that in public when it's not even true.

i'm not mad or anything, i hope this didn't come off with too much attitude, but i had to retaliate for once in my life.

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Re: Re: Re: Re:, 10-11-05 8:18pm

Ok before I start - let it be known this is not to back one side or the other this is simply my understanding and view of our government/world based on my knowledge and experience. I will be the first one to stand up and say I do not agree with how our governement handles policy nor are they neccesarily role models for the world. However I can't abandon the sincere belief that what the founders of the United States did was revolutionary and profound. There has never been in history nor in current times, a regime founded that is the same or even remotely similar to our government. Yes, they were a bunch of privelaged white men, yes some/most owned slaves, but they did what was unheard of. In our government they instituted systems to ensure that power did not rest in one hand, based on the situation they left, and that all people were represented. In fact, the strength of the federal government didn't even come into play until the country had been functioning for almost 20 years. The founders believed that the best system of government was that of local townhall meetings for the community, where the area needs were addressed and taken care of - with all people having direct imput. This then progressed to county level, issues that local areas couldn't handle alone, then state, and finally the need for national government. Power has been difused from the people to a national level of elites, trust me it's hard as hell to get into that circle. I think it's important to consider that what the founder's left behind in Europe was much worse than what we have encountered in the US. Just think about the colonial conquests of Europe, you can't tell me that wasn't worse than anything we did here (or at least comparable). Both sides of the ocean did a good job of supressing minority peoples and ideas.

I think Columbus was a jerk, just like a lot of these guys were. But find a better system of governement in the world, without any historical flaws. It can't be done.

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Re: Re: Re: Re:, 10-11-05 8:21pm

I'm not excusing his faults! I'm saying, you are making a blanket statement about someone who has saved you from the people you can't stand OVER AND OVER again. Who were those people you were concerned about? the native americans? the poor or working-class? the women? the blacks? the gays? the latinos? the japanese? the italians? the irish? the chinese? the muslims? the buddhists? Well guess what? He recognized that the social stigmas of society would change overtime. And if it weren't for the way he designed the government that is so repulsive to you, the constitution would have been amended by now so as to OUTLAW gay marriage forever. You mentioned George Bush? Yeah him and his cronies in the Congress would have had the power to pass whatever legislation they wanted, without any concern for the minorities you mentioned. The government is deliberative, and slow for a reason. It's so their rights don't get trampled. And just because he didn't give them to African-Americans at that moment in history, doesn't mean he couldn't understand how people that followed him might try to take advantage of others. You didn't even try to see the gray areas at all, and I thought it was unfair. I don't have an "attachment" to Madison, I have an attachment to certain ideas. And we don't just blindly accept everything he said as the word of the Lord. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE AMENDMENTS. Our slimy, scumball politicians managed to change the idiotic things that he did. We recognized his shortcomings, and kept his genius.

And I wasn't referring to your parents specifically. I have family members that say they have to get out of here before the blacks take over. Everyone in general manages to say the exact same thing. The statement was made so as to highlight the fact that none of us do anything to make things better, and we're in the middle of it all.

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10-11-05 4:52pm

i never remember this "holiday" even exists. god's way i spose.

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10-15-05 8:43am

hey, fuck every person who has raped and murdered millions of people. lol I almost feel sorry for white guys, they seem to be blamed for everything evil in the world! or, at least, singled out lol.

[btw, not looking for a debate ;] .. I get what you're saying]

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