yeah. sittin at home.
so i'm taking this little time at the computer to update my journal. cuz most likely, i wont be online tonight much at all. its bad for my eyes. i hate staying at home. its not cool. i feel the same. still crying. i slept for like 14 hours last night. yeah. you think that would help me feel at least a little better, but it didnt. the only thing i liked about sleeping that much... was that i got to have dreams in which i was normal. i miss seeing out of my eye! anyways. yeah.

for all those happy people i notice - good for you. keep it up. that's the best way to live life.
for all those not happy people i notice - you're not alone. everything will be ok because you have people here for you.

*it's been a bad day. another bad day.
and all i wanna do is look at you and know i'm ok.
from where i'm sitting, your shoes aint fitting.
and i'm walking backwards, looking down,
dont see the sky, i see the ground.
above, below, you look and so you wonder
where the time has gone of looking up.
tomorrow's on the way.
above, below, you look and so you say
when i wake up in the morning,
is it gonna be another ugly day?
from where i'm sitting these shoes aint fitting.
and i'm going nowhere, killing time,
just trying to feed my bleeding mind.

it's been a bad day , another bad day.
and i cross my heart and hope to die
these dreams of yours are gonna fly. *

yeah it still hurts. so i did nothing today. just trying to live with the pain. here's my turn to bitch about it, so if you wanna read... go ahead. if not, then i suggest you just go to someone else's journal...

it was the worst in the middle of the night. i woke up and tears were running down my face and my eyes (yes both of them) were seriously burning. this was like 2:30 in the morning. so i was forced to get up and wash my face and put some more medicine in my eye. sigh... i feel so freaking bad. like just this eye is killing me. if i didnt have it, i'd be feeling GREAT. but nooooo... the first weekend i get after xmas vacation, i'm burdened with this crap. i want to literally scratch my eyes out to stop the pain. i can't really read without straining my eyes. i was trying to read the music while playing guitar and then the stream of tears started again. it frustrated me so bad. i'm like handicapped and it's so not cool. soooooooo not cool. i don't want anyone to see me like this, it'll probably just make me cry even more, but i have to go to school tomorrow. i feel like a fucking freak. i dont wanna go out of the house. i dont wanna even get out of bed. but i've been doing homework. trying to at least... without crying.

sigh... i think i'm done.

edit
i don't think i'm done. sniff. i cried at the dinner table. i've never done that. i feel so helpless. and it only makes me cry more. i feel so pathetic. and i'm irritable towards my parents. my mom was like "you don't have to answer me like that. what's wrong with you?". that made me cry more... so much crying. i've never done it so much in my whole life. but i think my parents might let me stay home tomorrow. i'm watching moulin rouge even though i have it. *suddenly the world seems such a perfect place. suddenly it moves with such a perfect grace. suddenly my life doesn't seem such a waste. it all revolves around you.* sigh... i miss people... i miss being in the real world. all i have is this blurred yucky feeling. blecch. feeling the tears fall down my face...

my weekend so far.
yesterday danielle came home with me. back to routine. we went to eat dinner super super early so we went to see "chasing liberty" in city place. we got out around 10. that's pretty early for us. i loved that movie. the guy, matthew goode, is so unbelievable handsome. i love him probably as much as orlando bloom now. my mom loved him too. that's gotta say something. sigh. if only there were more guys like that. when we got home, danielle and i just hung out.

today i went shopping with my mom. good thing was that shopping always makes me feel a bit better no matter what. but the bad thing is, i still feel bad. i felt bad emotionally before shopping and i was crying, and so it led me into the arms of my stupid allergies. stuffy nose, itchy teary eyes, all that good stuff. and like my left eye, which was hurting from the night before, is like swollen and a bit purple right now. i dont know exactly what's wrong with me. maybe its a good thing i didnt spend time with any friends today because i look/feel like crap! tonight we're going to dinner at a family friend's. so... yeah. wasn't quite the saturday i was looking forward to during the week. sigh. i guess i can't change things.

i thought being with the one i want would make me happy... and i am. but i still cry? that doesn't make very much sense. i hate myself so much for ... for me. i think it's a sign. idk. altan's not allowed to spend time with me on the weekend until the next 9 weeks. hmm. so the first valentines day i'm not single, i won't be with him. i just hope things dont go to hell and that once he gets ungrounded, i might be grounded for a B in govt. i'm gonna try my best not to let that happen though. cuz then we won't have summer cuz he'll be in turkey. this relationship isn't what i thought it'd be. oh well. i still want it regardless. it was my fault i didn't get to see him today anyways.

sn i i i i i i i i i i i i ff.

*i am falling. i am fading. i am drowning. help me to breathe. i am hurting. i have lost it all. i am losing. help me to breathe.*

hmmm.
i <3 this cd... can't stop playing it. i think that this is my favorite song. i'm not sure though. i love all of them, but this one seems to click with me and all my moods. *shrug*. it's always those songs that i love...

so not a lot of people have been writing in woohu. hmm. how is school? eh. i hate getting back to the routine of actually having to DO crap. it makes me tired, but being with my friends energizes me also. i can't wait until the weekend comes. yeah, back to that too. loving the weekends. sigh. i don't like this! i hate school. cannot wait for summer break. hopefully i don't drive myself to torture with summer school... who knows.

there's really nothing to say. maybe that's why people don't update.

if i woke up alone
i won't stop til i find you and you are with me
cause by now i know you better than you know yourself
and i know what you really need
what you need or i need
but either way this is where you should be
here with me
or i'll bleed
so much that you won't believe
you better not run...


edit: yeah... as you sleep and ruthless are getting up there... its a tie.

trying to read govt. s i g h

holy crap.

i wrote this emotional and depressing entry. it was good considering my recent entries. woohu chose to freaking screw up so i lost it. now i just feel like sitting in a corner and crying. i wanna run and hide from it all... my mind is playing tricks on me. i feel all those negative feelings from school again. damn it. this isn't right. i miss. sigh. song lyrics.
<3
speaking impartially
there doesn't seem to be a place for me
but when i look inside
i find a place to run, to hide

so.
hmmmmm. dont feel like writing a journal. some things just stick in my mind that phrases might sum up. or at least it does in my eyes.

-i miss luan more than i thought i ever could.
-trying to get more music.
-gaze at the fireworks.
-i wanna fall in you again.
-*whispers* never.
-i'm not pregnant.
-spooning.
-elizabeth kingsley?.... do you mean keira knightly?
-let me tell you a secret.
-BB OB

dude i'm soooo lazy.
<3 everyone

You are "Welcome to the Caribbean, love."
You're more than a little world-weary, but also
intelligent and you keep your head when things
get dodgy. You're everybody's favorite
drinking buddy, but your stubbornness does get
in the way sometimes.


Which one of Captain Jack Sparrow's bizarre sayings from Pirates of the Caribbean are you?
brought to you by Quizilla

let's go back to the stars
new layout (finally). peter pan inspired me. loved that movie. saw it with danielle, luan, and edgar. i must go see it again. it was so sweet, so innocently romantic. i recommend seeing it with anyone. family, friends, significant other, whoever. i cleaned the house today for like 5 or 6 hours. after i came home from the movies we decorated the house a little bit. i'm so excited for new years eve! we gonna parrrrrrtay! and it'll be a wonderful night. filled with fireworks. my dad and my brother spent $170 on fireworks! its funny, there's these boxes with a caution sign that says "high power pyro". lol. yeeees. this one will be a good one. looking back on this past year... so many things have changed. mostly for the better. because you learn. and i have learned. and i have made new friends. and i love them all! i love everyone.

dont want to go to my bed.
1. What did you do in 2003 that you'd never done before? got a boyfriend. admirers. relationships that are so strong that i couldve never imagined it beforehand.
2. Did you keep your new years' resolutions, and will you make more for next year? i dont remember last years. dunno if i can make more.
3. Did anyone close to you give birth? no
4. Did anyone close to you die? no
5. What countries did you visit? the us virgin islands ;)
6. What would you like to have in 2004 that you lacked in 2003? though its a lot to ask for, less stress, more happiness and love.
7. What date from 2003 will remain etched upon your memory, and why? certain moments with danielle. certain moments with everyone. the worst days of my life at the end of freshman year. my never ending sixteenth birthday celebration. concerts- christina aguilera, justin timberlake, something corporate, jason mraz, tristan prettyman, and relient k are definitely the best (in no special order). my one year anniversary with danielle. and so many other heart warming and stomach wrenching moments.
8. What was your biggest achievement of the year? making the memories
9. What was your biggest failure? i don't know if i can say.
10. Did you suffer illness or injury? no not really. minor pains.
11. What was the best thing you got? the friends. the love.
12. Whose behavior merited celebration? man, must i list everyone? i'll list some. and if i don't list you, don't hate me. danielle for being my strength and my love. altan for making me feel like a queen. luan for being the first to want me. rich for being an angel and for making me appreciate what friendship can do. greta for easing my pain. valerie for cracking on people when i needed a laugh. edgar for being the romantic soul i needed to bond with.
13. Whose behavior made you appalled and depressed? mm. can't say.
14. Where did most of your money go? to xmas gifts for my friends
15. What did you get really, really, really excited about? being with the ones i love
16. What song will always remind you of 2003? sigh. ignition remix, officially missing you, you and i both, get busy, hey ya... hmm.
17. Compared to this time last year, are you:
i. happier or sadder? different shades
ii. thinner or fatter? thinner? i hope.
iii. richer or poorer? richer. i'm so boca... i'm so ashamed.
18. What do you wish you'd done more of? sleep
19. What do you wish you'd done less of? bitch about meaningless crap and take things so seriously
20. How will you be spending Christmas? i spent it with my family
22. Did you fall in love in 2003? hard to say.
23. How many one-night stands? none
24. What was your favorite TV program? mm. hard to say.
25. Do you hate anyone now that you didn't hate this time last year? um... i'm not naming names.
26. What was the best book you read? not sure.
27. What was your greatest musical discovery? mm. cant say.
28. What did you want and get? love and admiration
30. What was your favorite film of this year? ahh. too many. i cant say!!
31. What did you do on your birthday, and how old were you? i turned 16, and i did so much crap.
32. What one thing would have made your year immeasurably more satisfying? probably if luan never left. or if a certain someone would have opened his eyes sooner.
33. How would you describe your personal fashion concept in 2003? i am me. dead sexy.
34. What kept you sane? danielle
35. Which celebrity/public figure did you fancy the most? always fancy jake gyllenhaal and orlando bloom! heh.
36. What political issue stirred you the most? please dont ask me about this.... lol
37. Who did you miss? um. i miss(ed) everyone. people are on vacations. and luan moved away. and i miss the kid from georgia (matt). and i miss rich because i'll never have art with him again!
38. Who was the best new person you met? well, the term "got to know well" is good. its a three way tie between ari, rich, and edgar.
39. Tell us a valuable life lesson you learned in 2003: life... just try to suck it up and get through it. in the end, it'll be okay. as long as you have people that care about you, you'll be ok. and when it's the darkest, just keep walking towards the light. you'll get there.
40. Quote a song lyric that sums up your year: never believed it could happen to me. something like this only happens to dumb girls taking themselves too seriously. i was so damn smart, i was the one girl. never believed it could happen to me. something like this only happens to somebody else.

thanks rich for the survey. definitely took up some good time. i'll paint for ya, just say the word. i'll take the whole day and go crazy! =D

so many things to say. so little time to say em. are you gonna read it all?
man i got so much to remember... where do i start?

december 25th:
it's so hard to remember what happened on what day. on christmas, we went to the movies. who is we? my dad, my brother, my aunt and her two daughters, and my other cousin and his cousin. we saw cheaper by the dozen. that was so cute!! i loved it. we bought so much movie food, it wasnt even funny. we were like our own little version of cheaper by the dozen. we spent like $80! yeah. but it was good.

"i dont know your family!"
"YOU DO NOW!!!"

while we were doing that, my mom was preparing prime rib for our big family xmas dinner. when she came to pick us up, she was like "ok hurry up cuz i told grandpa not to touch my prime rib!". and of course, we get back home... and he definitely did something to it. we didn't know what, but we smelled some different spices in there than usual. heh. funny. then we headed over to one of my aunts house to eat our xmas dinner. all of my moms sisters (4), their families, and one of her brothers came with his family too. it was great. i love doing that big family dinner thing. interesting things went on. my mom told my aunts that "christina had a boyfriend... his name is altan." (which of course he isnt) then my aunts were like "OOOO... ALTAN!". then my mom told them about him. hah. funny stuff. it was a yummy yummy dinner. then after cleaning up, it was time for presents! i feel like my xmas has lasted forever because i keep getting more as the days go by. what did i have at that point? i hope i remember it all...

>>from school friends<<
STILL. <3 you danielle.
something corporate cd (lizzy!)
teddy bear (sweetest thing, bryan.)
cute manga and disney princesses calendar (<3 ari <3)
pink skirt made by the ACC (ashley)
heart bracelet + pink and black striped halter top (valerie knows.)
>>from family<<
evenstar necklace from lotr
dooney & bourke purse
new sunglasses (which i left in houston)
two shirts
$50

so then we sat around, ate some dessert and had some good quality family time. then we went home.

december 26th
*thinking*
so the day after christmas. my mom and my aunts went madd shopping. of course. during the day, we went to the mall and i went ice skating with my cousins. i hadn't ice skated in so long, but after awhile, it was ok. they played some nice music. "all i have" came on and i wanted danielle with me! so after that, i didnt get to shop much. oh well. then we all went back to my uncle's house. there, we waited. my youngest aunt tu, my mom, and i then took a little trip to the saks 5th outlet. we chose some things for my mom to buy for us the next day, when 6 am - 10 am they would have additional sales. so after that, we went back to my uncles house. we grew incredibly hungry. we were just waiting for my other aunt to call us for dinner. my other aunt had some visitors, her old best friend from georgia. we met my aunts best friend like two years ago in atlanta. that was when we first met em. they have two kids, same age as me and my brother. so before dinner, my mom was telling my aunts how the son was "pretty cute" and was a "womanizer". then my aunts were like looking at me. it was funny. so we eventually went to dinner to meet my other aunt and her best friend. after greetings, the son of my aunts best friend sits next to me. it was soooo funny, cuz my aunt tu was like looking at me, smiling, and winking. haha. but i lost my seat and ended up sitting next to his sister. i talked mostly with them. they were funny. their names were stephanie and matthew. matthew was irritatingly charming. i'll never forget him looking at me and going "wanna come over later and play?" then doing his dorky smile and eyebrow raise. cute dork. later on for dessert, we ate beignets at a little french bakery. the car ride there was like the funnest car ride EVER. my mom and my aunt tu were rocking out to hey ya and then 80s music. it was GREAT. oh and we followed the wrong car. lol. at the place, matthew sat next to me then too. it was kinda odd. he's so outgoing. but i liked him. all throughout the night, my aunts tu and tiffany were like "christiiiiina.... remember altan!". lol

december 27th:
so i woke up and my mom had already gotten done shopping and getting her hair done. she must have been in a truly good mood. she got me my pink chandelier earrings from saks and ... she handed me this bag. i was like ooooook. and she's like open it! and i looked in the bag. and guess what this woman bought me!! no just guess. well i'll tell you. she got me this rectangular pink louis vuitton purse. i was like OMG and i freaked out. she wouldnt tell me how much she got it for though. i doubt it real, but still! it's really close to being real.

now from then on, the day was kinda crappy cuz everything went wrong. we went to eat at chilis and they made us wait for an hour because our party was so big. that was a lesson learned. then after that, we met up with my aunt and her best friend again. the kids and i (along with matthew) went to go bowling. well the bowling waiting list was two hours long. so we went to laserzone. that was quite fun. but it only lasted for like 45 minutes. at one point, matthew was holding me hostage in a corner and using me as a human shield. yes, fun. THEN we went to eat ice cream to kill time. then we went to the park for 10 minutes. but ya know, as soon as i get accustomed to having matthew around, he has to leave. so i took his phone and put my number in it without him knowing. doubt he'll ever call me. doubt we'll ever see each other again. after his family left, i was just missing his annoying eagerness to get to know me. sigh. then we went to this place that had games, movies, bowling, a skate park, and all this stuff. well it was really confusing. bowling had a waiting list, so i left and went to the movies by myself. i couldnt go to the one my mom and aunt tu were already in so i had to go see mona lisa smile all by myself. it was quite lonely. in the twenty before the movie, they played that hootie and the blowfish song "goodbye girl" and i felt... so alone. but the movie was good, i liked it. it was really the perfect chick flick for me. but then when i got out.... i found out my family was pissed at me for going off alone and not telling them what i was seeing and when i'd be out. but they got over it. apparently, my mom was really pissed, but she was just silent when i got in the car. we went to eat sushi where i once again, felt alone. i mean, i was with my family, but the place was such a date place. it was candlelit and played love songs. they played india arie's "ready for love" which is like one of my major songs recently... and i was just like ... sigh.

december 28th:
i got home... sigh. i opened more gifts! yeah i love christmas. i think there's still more to come because i haven't gotten the #1 thing on my list, my electric guitar. here's more stuff i got:

another pair of chandelier earrings
shirt and jeans
pink hat (sounds lame, but it makes me think of like... me being a solo spino)
khaki guess pants
disney princesses cd
precious memories calendar
and my mom bought me the STILL lotion thinking that danielle only bought me the spray, but she's gonna go return it now.

yeah... i think that's all i have to say now.
i hope i get to see luan soon.

my time in houston so far..
mmm... so i'm at my uncle's house right now. its kinda weird cuz usually its all of my family here for dinner but all of my moms other sisters are at in laws. so tomorrow will be the big family dinner. what have i done today? damn, i woke up at 4:30. i mostly slept on the plane. then we went to my aunt's house and we wrapped presents. took a little trip to costco in prep for tomorrows dinner, then met mostly everyone in my family for lunch. then... whew. my family is like so disorganized, it's funny. i always get so confused about where i'm going, where i'm staying, and where my stuff ends up. but its all good. cuz they're entertaining. my little cousins... they are definitely something. they're so competitive with each other. and each of em have these quirky, freaky traits. its quite funny. i would say that today is pretty unproductive, but seeing all my family again is good. it's kinda weird, they think i'm on a diet because apparently i look thinner... yeah right! i wish. well. i'm on aim... none of the people i need to talk to are on right now! grrr. this always happens dammit. i miss everyone. love everyone. merry christmas eve!

the amusing moment of my day:
(listening nonstop to christmas songs that made me laugh)
mamacita, donde esta santa claus?
donde esta santa claus?

hmmm.
this is probably like my most favorite song without my realizing it. like... it wasnt an instant thing. but i never skip it and its the only tristan song that can make me cry. so i guess it's the one that touches me heart the most. hmmm. ever had a song like that?

so yesterday... what the hell did i do? lol. oh yeah! i watched movies with my brother. i <3 spending lazy time with him. like, is that so wrong to be close to your brother? i don't think so. it's sweet. then later on i slept over danielle's. she was a psycho, lemme tell ya. like even more psycho than usual! she was freaking ready to murder/rape me. sigh. that girl needs some therapy. but i love her always. then we called altan up and invited him into the world of danielle and christina. crazy. we fell asleep to... i dont remember! i was tired for some reason. then today we volunteered a bit at the locks for love place. who would have thought that you can spend 2 hours and 15 minutes just writing addresses? yeah. interesting.

luan is on his way down here!!

i'm leaving tomorrow.... really really early in the morning. won't be back til late sunday. sigh... i will miss the world of woohu. maybe i'll update in houston, who knows! i can't wait to see all of my family again. i will miss my friends though. danielle!! aaaah. merry christmas to all.

<3 <3


edit ... i was bored.


Orlando Bloom
You are going to marry ORLANDO BLOOM. Lucky you! he
is so Hot! Well, Anyway you like your men to
have fun and take risk. Plus you like them drop
dead gorges. You also like a man that will
treat you right. Treat you like the lady you
are


What Celebrity will you Marry? (NEW for men and women)
brought to you by Quizilla

my god i love him.


Legolas
Please rate my quiz I worked hard on it thanks


Which Lord of the Rings person do you want? (many out comes for anyone plus pics to)
brought to you by Quizilla



You are Chicago. You are a dancer and a singer. You
love to dance and do anything to do it even
sleep with a person who says that they can help
you make "it big". All you think is
about dancing and singing everything is dance
and a song.


Which Movie Are You?
brought to you by Quizilla


You're ELEGANT sexy! You have a tasteful style,
that not only draws attention to you, but gives
you respect. Your style is more graceful than
that of others.


What kind of sexy are you? [For girls only! With Pics! Finally Finished!]
brought to you by Quizilla

i've done this one like a billion times but one more couldnt hurt right....although it never changes.


You have a mysterious kiss. Your partner never
knows what you're going to come up with next;
this creates great excitement and arousal never
knowing what to expect. And it's sure to end
in a kiss as great as your mystery.


What kind of kiss are you?
brought to you by Quizilla

more quizzes i've taken time and time again...


-Perfect- You're the perfect girlfriend. Which
means you're rare or that you cheated :P You're
the kind of chick that can hang out with your
boyfriend's friends and be silly. You don't
care about presents or about going to fancy
placed. Hell, just hang out. You're just happy
being around your boyfriend.


What Kind of Girlfriend Are You?
brought to you by Quizilla


Feminine


What's your sexual appeal?
brought to you by Quizilla

there's nothing like vacation.
edit: my brother. i love him. he gave me his xmas gift to me today. right before lord of the rings started, he hands me this box. and i open the wrapping and its a lotr box. and i'm like... o...m...g. he wrote me a note in elvish. it was so sweet. and guess what was in the box. he bought me an official replica of the elvish necklace that arwen/aragorn had in the movie. can you think of anything sweeter than that?

sooo yesterday. vacation is just great. we started off early and went in search for somewhere for danielle and i to volunteer. bad us for waiting last minute. but that's who we are. procrastinators. then we went shopping. then eating. then shopping again. that's my family's life! and a movie now and then. then we went to ashley pasion's party. where was everyone?! grr. we had good times though anyways. it was quite interesting. it was great being with people i love. then i slept over danielle's house.

today we went to lunch with my family at this new italian restaurant. it's soooo good. it was filling. we saw these portions and we were like holy crap. the restaurant is like a maze but it's got a homey feel, because every home is tacky in one aspect or another. but good food. maybe next time we'll have room next time for dessert! mmm. then we went to the movies. danielle went to see cheaper by the dozen. my brother and i saw the return of the king. it was great. yeah, the end. very emotional. i was so close to crying like 3 times. i teared up. we had a fun ride home. good times good times.

sigh. i feel so much better.
i feel so much freer. today was a good day. i'm in a really lovey-dovey wintery mood. this is exactly when i need a boyfriend, ya know? but it's ok. i'll just... wait. today feels like it was so short yet so long. last night, didnt get much sleep! hehe. danielle kept me up ;) lol. the art hist exam wasnt too bad. twas what i expected. then danielle, edgar, and altan came home with me. i liked being lazy bums. eating pizza. drinking soda. nothing to do. it's just such a weird change from so many things to do. it's great! i love it. now i'm all dressed up to go to my dads company christmas party. fun? no.... boredom. andrew and i could go see lotr rotk, but we want to be nice children. so we're gonna go see it sunday. tomorrow is ashley pasion's party. who's going?? sigh. i wish danielle were still here to keep me company. <3 i need my love! love to all.

. : tina : .
<3
the way we held each others hand, the way we talked, the way we laughed, it felt so good to find true love.
i knew right then and there you were the one.
i know that he loves me cuz he told me so.
i know that he loves me cuz his feelings show.
when he stares at me, you see he cares for me.
you see how he's so deep in love.
i know that he loves me cuz it's obvious.
i know that he loves me cuz it's me he trusts.
and he's missing me if he's not kissing me.
and when he looks at me, his brown eyes tell his soul.

<3 spending time with the one i love. (danielle)

As if you were born into a world of tears, you
always tend to look at the darker things in
life. Inside you crave attention yet push away
society, and you're a hopeless romantic. Drawn
to things like the occult and mysteries, you
spend your time daydreaming of


What Type of Soul Do You Have ?
brought to you by Quizilla

i'm sorry, i just love the song so much.
last night i felt like crap! i was in serious hell. i got a stuffy nose and my eyes were itchy and watery and i started coughing. once i started coughing, danielle told me to go to bed, so i listened to her. i went to bed at 10:30. i woke up at like 7:30, so i got plenty of sleep. though i still wanna go back to bed. i dont wanna go to school. i dont want to take the math exam, dont wanna deal with some things. whatever. it's sooooooooooooo cold. i like it being cool, like 60s... but 40s and 50s?! brrrrrrrr. i can't wait for school to be OVER. i'll miss people but i will not miss the school or the classes. sigh. vacation is gonna be absolute bliss.

can't stop singing it!
*the trouble with love is, it can tear you up inside. make your heart believe a lie. it's stronger than your pride. the trouble with love is, it doesn't care how fast you fall. and you can't refuse the call. see, you've got no say at all.*